How the U.S. Chief Diversity Officers Executive Council is Propelling DEIA Forward
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In this week's episode of the 'All Inclusive Podcast,' Natasha speaks with Dr. Janice Underwood, PhD who served as the U.S. Government-wide Chief Diversity Officer for the Biden-Harris administration during their discussion.
Renowned for her expertise in diversity leadership and strategic planning, Dr. Janice Underwood boasts a distinguished track record of enhancing organizational outcomes through the inclusive excellence framework, evidence-based equity frameworks, and diversity principles, while adeptly leading teams across various sectors. Since May 2, 2022, Dr. Underwood has served in the Biden-Harris Administration, bringing over 25 years of dedication to public service. In her role at the U.S Office of Personnel Management, she collaborates with federal partners to roll out a comprehensive DEIA strategy to all qualifying federal agencies in alignment with White House Executive Order #14035.
Before her appointment, Dr. Underwood was at the forefront of addressing systemic inequities within the government and education sectors. Her roles have spanned from a cabinet state official and university administrator to a teacher educator, researcher, national board-certified teacher, and diversity advocate. As Virginia's first Chief Diversity Officer under Governor Ralph Northam, Dr. Underwood played a pivotal role in developing the ONE Virginia Plan. This groundbreaking statewide diversity strategic plan for over 100 state agencies is designed to foster affirming work, learning, economic, and social environments across Virginia. This initiative serves as a blueprint for ensuring access and success not only within the state but also as a model for other states and the nation at large, while she also spearheaded the equity agenda for the Northam administration.
Episode Highlights:
Janice’s Leadership Journey (01:18)
The Personal Touch: How Life Experiences Shape DEI Initiatives (05:15)
What Achievements and Innovations Emerged from Establishing the DEI Council (08:54)
How to Effectively Manage Diverse Voices and Ideas in DEI Discussions (15:12)
Overcoming Obstacles: How to Address Challenges when implementing DEI Initiatives (19:25)
Why the Future of DEI Matters: Anticipating Upcoming Trends and Goals (27:46)
Connect with Dr. Janice Underwood on LinkedIn
Transcript
Natasha: Hi, Janice
Dr. Underwood: Hi.
Natasha: I'm so thrilled to have you on the show today. I'm really looking forward to this conversation.
Dr Underwood: Natasha, I am so pleased to be with you and let's jump in.
Natasha: Yeah, so let's kick things off. Tell our listeners a little bit more about you and your journey to where you are today.
Dr. Underwood: Well, Natasha again I'm thrilled to join you on this podcast. I am a faithful viewer or observer and I love the show. A little bit about me let me first start off by saying for those who are joining. I'm an African American woman. I have on a red blouse, a string of pearls. I have brown hair, green hazel eyes. My pronouns are she/her. I usually start off with a visual description for those who may have visual disabilities and we have in the federal government really doubled down on gender identity policies that create an inclusive workplace. So Natasha, I have the great honor of serving in the U.S. Office of Personnel Management as the director of the Office of Diversity, Equity, Inclusion and Accessibility. And let me just start out by saying, you know, leadership matters. And President Biden and Vice President Harris believe so much in DEI and A, they put out a White House executive order on June 21, 2021. And basically said, as the nation's largest employer, we must have a whole of government approach. The reason why I bring that up is because I, in my role at OPM, I serve also as the government-wide chief diversity officer, managing and supervising OPM's role in executing and implementing White House executive order 14035, the DEI and A in the Federal Workforce Executive Order. And I couldn't be more thrilled, especially at a time when we see DEI and A in belonging work coming under attack. President Biden and the administration have doubled down because we know as the nation's largest employer that we have great influence over how to build and become a model employer for all other employers. So we are excited, we are truly like I said doubling down and I support Chief Diversity Officers across the nation, both obviously in the public sector and the federal government, but also have grown to become an amazing ally for those in local and state government in the private sector. So this is really an amazing time for me. But Natasha, for your viewers, this road was not a straight road to get to this place to become the nation's top CDO.
Natasha: Yeah, it really did become or it started rather as a, if you don't mind me saying, as a high school biology teacher teaching students a level of science.
Dr. Underwood: Yeah, no, not that. Students for which didn't speak English as a first language, students with disabilities. And so that's where I begin to understand inequity. STEM inequity in particular STEM pipelines. And a lack of interest with regard to supporting all students. And so I labored and conducted research and wanted to try to reform teacher preparation so that we could affect our future and impact the future of the workforce. And so these conversations that I started back in 94, 98, you know, are coming to fruition now. And so most recently I come from the office of governor in the Commonwealth of the state of Virginia. diversity officer to serve in a governor's cabinet. So if you will for your listeners a secretary level of DEI work and I'm so excited to share with you that because of that work we did this in a bipartisan way. We supported the creation of that office and in across the nation helped to set it up in six states. And now the one Virginia plan is being used in about 15 or 16 states. So really excited about being a part of a coalition, a movement which really stabilized DEI.
Natasha: Oh, literally it's extraordinary. I think your extraordinary, the work that you're doing is not only impacting, immediately impacting in Virginia, but now where you sit, it's being impacted by millions, millions of people. How is your personal experiences impacted how you approach diversity and inclusion. You know, I'm someone who loves people. I, um, that's why I went into teaching and education because I genuinely love people. I love humans and I want to see us win. And so, you know, my personal experiences, I've always been a very outgoing person and yet somewhat of an introvert if you will. So I understand this idea or this dichotomy of you know difference. I've always been viewed as a little bit different whether it was in elementary school or high school college. But I never, I never sort of unwavering from this idea of human connection and relationship building because I knew just instinctively, even as a teenager, that building relationships was how we get closer, you know, to that sense of belonging. I believe and strive to epitomize the servant leadership model. As I think about interacting with my teams, my community, and my family. It's really about how do we meet our mission, meet our task, whatever that may be, how do we do it together? And so in terms of who I am, you know, as a human, I just love people. And so I bring that into the workplace. I bring that into my research. I bring that into my ways of knowing and that's the reason why I am so persuaded that diversity, equity, inclusion, and accessibility are the way we get to you know, liberty and justice for all. This is how we get to better organizations and institutions and improve outcomes, especially as we talk about organizational health in this post-COVID world. Everyone is scrambling Natasha about, how do we return to the office? Everyone's scrambling about how do we do outreach to early career talent? How do we ensure that our workplaces or our employee experience is increased so that we can impact and increase our customer experience? Those kinds of conversations run right through and intersect squarely with diversity, equity, inclusion and accessibility.
Natasha: And I think it's something that comes up time and time again in speaking with leaders like yourself that are leading the charge and doing this important work is that it's so important that we can weave the eyes through the fabric of every part of an organization. I know your office most recently the Chief Diversity Officers Executive Council was set up less well as just I say left of the year it's just over a year now just over a year ago September 2022 which is fantastic. So could you just share with our listeners some of the key achievements and initiatives that you've been able to to put in place during that time since setting up the council?
Dr. Underwood: Natasha, when anyone asks me to talk about the council, I am the first one to run to that conversation because I'm so excited about it, you know, as we get questions about sustainability and how do we support chief diversity officers and those who are passionate and those who are leveraging DIA. This is the answer. The chief diversity officers council, which you can see my logo right in my virtual screen right there. there is really set up as a part of and to support White House executive order on DIAA. But really in terms of long term sustainability, it's an interagency forum that includes all of the top CDOs across government in our CFO Act agencies, as well as those from our partners with regard to the federal EOC and the Office of Management and Budget and our White House colleagues. We come together and we begin to share promising practices and support CDOs. In the federal government, we have so many agencies, right? We have small, medium and large-size agencies that are making individualized decisions about hiring a chief diversity officer. How do we embed and leverage DEI and a principles so that we can get to better employeeOs who report directly to a cabinet secretary. We have some CDOs who report to an agency head or a sub cabinet secretary or sub cabinet agency, like a director of an agency. That being said, we wanted to even the playing field. And so just standing up this council where we have the chair of the council serving as or is the OPM director. Kierna Hooja we have the two vice chairs on our leadership team of the council which are the EOC chair Charlotte Burroughs and deputy director management of OMB Jason Miller and then myself serving as the government wide-chief diversity officer and together we manage the council and it is my great honor to be able to support studios across the landscape. We bring them together. We troubleshoot. We problem-solve and we innovate in real time and one of the amazing accomplishments I'll just share, maybe one or two. First of all, please listeners, go to and check out opm.gov and all the resources there. And there, in addition to you will find information about the US Chief Diversity Officers Council. And you will see our charter, our official charter, you will see an amazing video where I invite your listeners to meet a few of the CDOs from the council that I get the great honor to work with and support. And you will get to meet also our chair and our vice chair. So please do that. That's sort of my charge to the listeners.
Natasha: Yeah, no, no, because I've been on the website. It's fantastic. You do definitely have access to a lot of information to learn more about what you guys are up to. And actually, I think you recently, this year, published the annual report as well on some of the data that you've gathered, which in having a read through that is also very much eye opening as well.
Dr. Underwood: Yes. And so, you know, that brings up a great point together on the council, we've broken up into four working groups because this council has not just meant to be a check-the-box council where we sort of bring people together just to meet for the sake of meeting. We are solving problems. We are innovating in real time and the creation of these four working groups. Each working group has project deliverables and project plans. The names of the working groups include a standards working group, a policy working group, a data working group and a training and development and partnerships working group. And together, these four groups are literally making headways, even amidst these headwinds of DEI and A-work sort of being in this complicated time in history. But together, we're serving and working government wide, which is incredible. So we joined the likes of all the other federal councils like the Chief Data Officers Council, like the Chief Financial Officers Council, the Chief Learning Officers Council, the Chief Information Officers Council. So now that we have created this brand new constituency of the workforce called chief diversity officer or chief diversity and inclusion officer or chief diversity officer or chief diversity officer or equity officer positions. We have a place to come together equitably, just like all the other councils. And we are doing exactly what these other councils are doing. We're trying to meet the needs of our workforce. We're working very closely with our Chief Human Capital Officers Councils. We're working very closely with our offices of general council so that we can get the work done.
Natasha: I mean, I think it just goes to show that even at the federal government level, you guys are understanding that collaboration, partnership is what's going to work. And that is what's going to ensure that we can all come together and reach the goals that we all have. In doing the work and in working with so many, sometimes you do get the phrase of, "Is there too many cooks in the kitchen?" (laughs) Can it be quite, it must be, there's a lot of ideas and a lot of diverse perspectives in the room all in one time, that all share the same common goal. So what have you found to be an effective ways or strategies? And when you're setting out what you want to do, what's been the most effective approach that you've found so far?
Dr. Underwood: You know, you bring up a good point. So many cooks in the kitchen. I'll start by saying that the council is truly the top CDOs at our CFO Act agencies. So think about the US Department of Commerce, the US Department of Labor, the State Department, and to minimize all of those cooks in the kitchen, I really have espoused with our CDOs a very clear communication channel so that we're not leaving CDOs out who are in subcomponent agencies, but it really is incumbent upon those top CDOs to allow that information and that innovation that we're doing and working through to flow down in there on their communication channel chains. So for example, what do I mean by this? The top CDO at the US Department of Health and Human Services is CDO Karen Comfort, amazing colleague and amazing innovator and friend. She sits on the council. And by the way, we just had a council meeting just yesterday, December 14th, and where we sort of celebrated having 15 months on the scene. She was there. But her CDO's at her sub component agencies, let's say at the Centers for Disease Control of the CDC. There's a chief diversity officer there as well who is working on DEIA and equity issues, and but that CDC, CDO, doesn't sit on the council. So it's really important that that information is free flowing across the government landscape. Now my office also to mitigate this. We have what's called a DEI and a learning community. Well, we bring together the entire landscape, whether you're on the council or you're not, whether you are a CDO or not, you could be a program manager. You could be an assistant secretary. You could be a department head. You could be anyone in the federal government. But if you have a. gov or dot mill email address, you get to come and join us for amazing speakers. My office hours, webinars that we put on and of course we have an online toolkit and space where people can come and watch if they could not attend live, maybe some of our online content. And so that is really intentional. That online community, that what we call the learning community, meets several times during the month, every other week or so. We have an amazing newsletter that, you know, carouses, huge community of practice. And when I say huge community of practice, Natasha, I'm saying upwards to, you know, 4,000 practitioners who are invited to attack every other week. So there's energy. If I put out a message and say, Hey, I want us to gather to talk about promising practices in D E I and A, you know, that I get a lot of energy. I can have a thousand people to show up in about 24 hours that will come in log on. And that speaks to the energy and the excitement of the work, as well as the call for support and collaboration work as well as the call for support and collaboration.
Natasha: That sounds amazing. And I can only imagine the excitement, the rumble, the rumble, getting that email, I mean like, yes, I'm here. I'm ready. I want to sign up. I want to participate. I want to learn more. It's extraordinary. What would you say has been the biggest challenge so far?
19:09
Dr Underwood: Pick only one, I don't know, probably it's quite a few, but from the time that you've had so far, what's one of the standout challenges that you think you face. You know, the challenges of implementing DEI and A policies and just by the way in the federal government, we added the A to the DEI acronym. We have really elevated accessibility to cut across the D the E and the I.
I would say that our challenges are no different than the challenges you might find in private sector or philanthropy or academia. This work is very, very difficult. And so you need to make sure that you are putting and building offices that actually support the work, that this cannot be checked the box work. And what we've seen in the last few years is a vulnerability in the excitement for DEI work. And it's sometimes tied to current events. And we don't want that to sort of be the case, right? We shouldn't be thinking about hiring a chief diversity officer because of a particular current event as tragic as those events are.
Because you don't hire a chief financial officer for an organization of business or an institution because of a current event, because of a moment in time. I will tell you that I'm very passionate about balancing my checkbook, but no one's hiring me to be a CFO or budget analyst or any of those kinds of, you know, top financial kind of positions.
Natasha: Yeah.
Dr Underwood: And so when we hear people say, you know, I want to be a chief diversity officer or VP or SVP of DEI, you know, just being passionate is not in and of itself qualifying YouTube being that role. And a lot of companies and institutions were hiring chief diversity officers so quickly because they may have raised their hand to say, I'll do it or I'm the only one who's willing to do it. Or just I happen to manage an employee resource group. So I'm qualified to do this work. Not really, they're more harm to this field that I love so much and have tried to usher in, you know, being the first cabinet level chief diversity officer to send in a governor's cabinet and help to create that in government everywhere and support CDOs everywhere. You know, I'm excited to see that the field is starting to right size. You know, that's great. Of trying to place people who are very highly qualified, who know how to do this work that won't do harm to the work. That's really some of the biggest challenges. And then linking that to data. Making sure that this is not just a feel good position because as leadership changes, as attrition happens and leaders come and go, this work has to have staying power. And so for that reason, Natasha, I am so pleased to share with you that the federal government added a, a what we call a DEI and A index.
And it is not about just sort of saying, well, this is, this just is the right thing to do. No, we've linked it to data and that's how we get to sustainability. So there are questions on our OPM, Fevs or Federal Employee Viewpoint Survey that ask questions related to the D, the E, the I and the A to our entire Federal Workforce.
This survey is the largest survey that goes to any workforce about 1.6 million people are invited to participate. And what we did is created a baseline in 2022 and we found that 69% of our entire civilian federal workforce have positive perceptions of DEI and a as it relates to their specific work environments. That's huge.
Natasha: Yeah, I mean that's a massive number of people. And it then just goes to show, like if you've got four millions of people that are saying, no, we're happy. We want this, we're for this. Then that's only gonna show to other organizations outside that who employed the same smaller numbers or similar numbers that most likely your employees may well feel the same too.
Dr. Underwood: Well Natasha, I'll take it a step further and say that it's not even, it's even more than, hey, I'm for this, the employees are saying to us, it's working for me. And our data is showing, it's working for and being reported by employees across all dimensions of diversity. It really is all of us. I always say, and this is one of my catch phrases, you can't change what you don't measure, and you won't measure that what you don't acknowledge. And for the first time, the federal government is measuring and acknowledging the importance of DEI and A, so it's not just a nice thing to have. It really is about how do we improve our employee and customer experience. When Natasha hears the fresh news flash is that the process, off the process, our 2023 Fevs data have come out and in one year we have been able to move our government YDEIA index not one but two percentage points and most statisticians would tell you that is fairly impossible.
Natasha: Yeah.
Dr. Underwood: And waving flags and shouting from the roof and mountain tops about the work that we're doing, because the attempts to sort of divide us using DEI and the attempts to weaponize this work, the data shows that it's working for the largest employer in the United States. That's the message we need to get out. Two percentage points is Herculean. It is almost--
Natasha: But not all.
Dr. Underwood: Yeah, it's phenomenal. Like you actually smash it out of the park, like pat yourself on the back. It's incredible, and this is the reason why I do this podcast and have this platform and speak to leaders like yourself because I want you to be able to share, like this is what we've been able to do. This is what's worked for us. This is how we can get there and to troubleshoot. And if you're able to do it, like, I just feel like hopefully this will give encouragement to anyone that's listening that may well feel like things aren't moving as quickly as they want them to. Consistency, I think is key. And to try and not let the naysayers and those that are trying to dampen what we're all trying to achieve to win. You've just got to keep going, keep persevering. But congratulations, huge, huge congratulations to you and the team and the office.
Dr. Underwood: Thank you so much. I invite your listeners and you and your teams to check out our OPM federal employee viewpoint survey, public dashboard. We are being also very transparent about our progress to say to all people, whether you're a naysayer or not, but especially those naysayers, take a look at our data, see where we're making the progress, Let the federal workforce tell you what they are seeing and saying and it's a it's a great story to tell and we need to do more of that. So Natasha, I applaud you for this podcast because a lot of times the naysayers get to tell their side of the story a lot louder than us who are in the work, doing the work, rolling up our proverbial sleeves, if you will. And we do need to get the word out about pockets of excellence so that we can just have a landscape of excellence. That's how we're going to get there. So I appreciate.
Natasha: No, no, thank you. And like, I like how you touched it in terms of the transparency as well with the data. Because I think it's just as important. So whilst we are celebrating the progress and that's been made, it's also important that we're not only just showing the progress, like you're giving the full entire picture, like this is everything that we are have right now, this is where we're at, this is where we want to go to.
Dr. Underwood: So looking to the future, what changes or improvements would you like to see? I have so many in my mind as we think about how to sort of codify this work. I'll first just say that one of the things that makes me happy and makes me hopeful is that the team that I get to lead at the Office of Diversity, Equity, Inclusion and Accessibility, who is squarely every day supporting chief diversity officers across the nation, is a permanent career federal office. And so this work doesn't change with administrations. This work is, you know, work that we hope to continue on for years and years to come. So for that, I'm very hopeful. And I have, let me just give a shout out. I don't do this work alone. I have an amazing team. I can't do what I do or be on this podcast with you if it wasn't for that. And that is true for all chief diversity officers. This is very, very difficult work. What I'd like to see in the future is that all chief diversity officers are fully funded, have resources, and this work is embedded in cross the agency mission or an institutional mission as opposed to sort of being this or work like icing on cake, where it's so easily to scrape off, depending on how much icing you like on your cake. I really like to see this work being baked in, like the eggs and the oil and the sugar, the butter, the chocolate, into the cake, right? I'm getting really hungry now. So when the cake comes out the oven, you don't see the original ingredients to the cake. You now see a beautiful, perhaps delicious result or outcome. And that's how we want to think about DEI and A work that we, it naiblers of a business. We are enablers of an institution or an agency as opposed to something nice to have that sits over in that corner office. And we may or may not invite them to a meeting or we may or may not listen to what they have to say. That's what I'm hopeful for to really bake this into the equations of how we come up with budgets for agencies, how we think about our communications teams across agencies. How do we think them up to tell the story? I'd like to see historians really of chronicling this work. I had an amazing inflection point Natasha as I know you know, as we think about this moment in time. How do we tell this story to generations to come?
Natasha: I think everything you said is true and I love the baking analogy. I think it's so, it just makes so much sense. And to link that back to what you're doing is it's extraordinary. And before you leave us, I mean, I've enjoyed our conversation so much. And I don't want to take up any more of your time, even though I do secretly, I'm like, no, please stay. So I want to learn more. So just before you do go, could you give a parting piece of advice to all those leaders out there that are listening? What's one piece of advice that you'd like to give them?
Dr. Underwood: Again, I don't know that I can narrow it down to one thing. So I'll give you a couple of things. The first thing is check us out because if you go to our website we have a ton of publicly available resources. You don't have to start the the journey alone. You know whether you are CEO of an organization, whether you are a chief diversity officer or VP of strategic communications, you're on, or you're thinking about DEI from a content perspective, you know, it really is about creating a coalition. I often call it a coalition of the committed, but you don't have to start this alone. A lot of people say, well, where do I start? How do I, you're asking me to boil the ocean or wipe up the ocean with a paper towel, right? We have done a lot of the work and have tried to strive as an exemplar for DIA, not only the model, a model employer, but a model for DEI-NA. So for example, you can download right now our government-wise strategic plan for DEINA, a template that you can use to create a strategic plan for your institution. We published, like you mentioned earlier, DEINA annual report and all federal agencies have had to submit their DEINA plans and many of those are publicly available as well. So if you want to see examples of how the US State Department has created and crafted their DEI and A plan, it's available. If you want to see how the Department of Labor has crafted or the Department of Commerce has crafted their DEI and A plan or even take a look at the US Office of Personnel Management, see how DEI and A is woven into our overall strategic plan, as well as our diversity, equity, inclusion, and accessibility plan, and see how those two work together. There's another publicly available document called a Gender Identity Guidance Doctor. And we published that on March 31, 2023. The reason I bring that up is that, you know, we have entered into a space and time where there is an assault on gender identity, LGBTQ plus employees. But can I just share with all leaders, every one of us has a gender identity? Yeah, right. And that document ensures that everyone can see themselves in that policy document. That is available for all of our federal agencies, but it has become a model for even the private sector. I've heard from CEOs and Chief Diversity officers who have said, you know, we were waiting for you, the federal government, to put something out because now we can use it in our organization. And it is individualizable. It's not like the baked in you. It's already done. But we give agencies and ask other institutions if they want to use it, please use it, but make it your own. Make sure that it makes sense for your agency. But reach out to us if you need support and I say that to all of our federal agencies. We're here to help. We're here to be an ally. We're here to be a champion for you. We provide technical assistance to all federal agencies in that way. But I also am excited to say that I link arms with chief diversity officers even in the private sector. Don't do this alone. Don't feel like you have to be alone because our mental health, our sort of psychological safety as the ones who are going in to organizations trying to change systems and structures and sort of implement change management policies to get us to increase employee experience. It's hard work. We always sit at the intersection of either being sort of the most beloved or the most hated folks in an organization because we are the ones pushing an organization to be better and think outside the box and maybe not just go with the status quo because we've all heard the line, well we've never done it that way before, to which I reply, well why haven't we thought about doing it a different way? So that's how you come up against inequity and sustained inequity so that we can, as I mentioned earlier, reap the benefits of liberty and justice for all.
Natasha: Oh, Janice, that's amazing. Thank you so much for joining me today. You definitely have risen my spirit. I am so fortunate that you took the time out to speak with me and our listeners. We'll be linking down below all of that information and a link to OPM's website so everyone's able to access all of those resources that you've mentioned today and learn more about the work that you're doing. It's phenomenal, keep going, and I'm so excited to see what's to come ahead.
Dr. Underwood: Thank you so much Natasha, thank you for having me. And let's not let this be a one and done. Let's have an ongoing conversation.
Natasha: 100%.
Dr. Underwood: Definitely. All right, take care.
Natasha: Take care.