How SumUp Boosts Community Empowerment and Workplace Inclusivity
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In this week's episode of the 'All Inclusive Podcast,' Natasha speaks with Felizitas Lichtenberg, Global Head of Diversity & Inclusion, Wellbeing and ESG at SumUp.
Felizitas is a dynamic business expert with nearly 15 years of extensive experience. She’s known for her profound dedication and expertise in FinTech. At SumUp, she has pioneered and actively manages both the Diversity & Inclusion and Environmental, Social, and Governance (ESG) strategies, effectively implementing initiatives within the company and in the broader community. Her unique approach intertwines D&I with mental health awareness, boldly addressing often overlooked issues to foster meaningful change.
Her career foundation in commercial marketing and IT consultancy has equipped her with a rich blend of global and local market insights, alongside a keen business sense. Felizitas is passionate about the '3Es' – Education, Environment, and Entrepreneurship, directing her efforts towards these areas to promote inclusive and sustainable development.
Additionally, Felizitas is a skilled Intercultural Business Trainer, Organisational Change Manager, and Systemic Transactional Analysis Consultant. Her diverse Eurasian heritage and experience living in Germany, the USA, Britain, and France have enriched her understanding and approach to multicultural environments and business.
Episode Highlights:
How SumUp has Integrated DEI in its ESG Goals (03:59)
Amplifying Social Impact: Strategies for Your Organization's ESG Goals (06:28)
Can Inclusivity Be Cultivated in a Remote Workforce (11:49)
Effective Implementation Strategies for Hybrid Work (15:46)
Understanding and Overcoming DEI Resistance (19:59)
How to Engage Senior Leadership in Ongoing DEI Conversations (21:50)
Envisioning the Future: Felizitas’ Desired Advances in DEI (25:36)
Connect with Felizitas Lichtenberg LinkedIn
Transcript
Natasha: Hi, Felicity.
Felizitas: Hi, Natasha, how are you?
Natasha: I'm good, thank you, how are you?
Felizitas: I'm great, thank you. So good to be here with you today.
Natasha: Yeah, same, same. Thank you so much for joining me. So let's kick things off, tell our listeners a little bit about yourself, and how you became involved in DE and our leadership.
Felizitas: So, yeah, I'm the global head of diversity inclusion at the sum-up and also work on the topics of sustainability and mental health, which is getting more and more important. And about myself, I was born and raised in Germany, however, I mixed race. My father was Indonesian Chinese, and when I was six, he moved back to Indonesia. And yeah, so I always had this cultural upbringing, let's say, right, what was present when I was growing up, and then I lived in different countries. So I lived in the States, in France, England, and of course Germany. So wherever I was, I felt the topic of diversity and inclusion very present. And the, you know, having stereotypes, right? How I am perceived, how others perceive me, how I perceive others. And so, so this was quite present. And then I studied communication with the culture, leisure planning, as well as European business. And there was always something in me that told me already. I mean, back then, that 20 years ago, the role of the DEI didn't really exist, right? But there was always something in me that wanted to work on helping cultures communicate, helping to increase the understanding of each other. So I became when I then started off as commercial marketing manager and before that I took on site and I then became a inter-culture business trainer, organization, change manager, and the systemic transaction analysis. It's a bit complicated the word but it's the ecology basically and before then enter the D&I world.
Natasha: Oh lovely, no that's great, thank you so much for sharing that. So you say you work in DEI as well as mental health and also sustainability. So ESG has kind of gained some significant traction over the recent years. Is there a linke between ESG, so environmental, social, and governance and DEI?
Felizitas: So I mean besides the environment, which is probably all very clear to all of us, right? Why it's important in our responsibility as well to take action. We focus particularly on the social aspect. So what we do there is for example in Latin America, so Brazil, Chile, Colombia, we collaborated with an NGO and we focused on Java education for unemployed, youth, minority groups, and that's where the link let's say gets in right. So we focus on at least 60, 70% girls and then depending on the country, we look at either the focus of immigrants, we focus on a black or a pattern, Brazil for example and of course I always include exclusive to LGBTQ players, people with different abilities and so on. So, you know, I mean, it's a small drop, let's say, right? But we do want to focus on and giving, especially people from minoritized groups in those respective areas, the chance to get an education, take education, and then 80% of those will find employment. So we have covered something, 150 or so so far there and what we do in India for example, it's we collaborate with an organization called Dhamma Life and we focus on tech education as well so we find it's a tech platform and we have reached over 8,000 kids so far in rural India and our ambition is now 10,000 kids per year. But we also then focus on an entrepreneurship program in India there where we want to create an empower, female entrepreneurs, especially in rural India to sustain, right, money for themselves and their family with sustainable products as well. So we truly believe it's of course good what we are doing and our priority as well within summer, for example in my case now, and we have a responsibility in a great opportunity to focus on our future of food of talents and whether then they work for a summer or not doesn't really matter, right? But we want to give back to communities and help them thrive and give them an opportunity often it's just about getting a chance on an option or not, right? And whether they use can succeed in life.
Natasha: Yeah, no, it sounds fantastic. And it sounds like a lot as well though at the same time, which is it's great. But for other organizations that are out there, there are kind of wanting to do more within their social aspect for their ESG, they're hearing you with the programmes and issues. How can they effectively put these together? What have you learned has worked well?
Felizitas: That's a very good question. Let me just think about it for a moment. But I think bottom line, I would say, I often hear this, right? People say we want to get engaged and ball, but then we don't have people to do that or it's too much or so on. So I would maybe merge those two things. You know, looking at your own company organization and the social or environmental aspect. I think the one thing is everybody can start, right? So you don't need necessarily resources to do it. It's about creating an inclusive environment and we can all do that. Because nothing, right nothing is just cost Let's say being genuine And just for example asking how you're doing and trying to create empathy or have empathy about different life models, right? Challenging our judgements our own biases our own upbringing because you know often the way we are brought up biases are all upbringing because often the way we are brought up impacts the way we evaluate others, right, to say whether they're okay or not okay or whether we think we're better than them or they are better than us and so on and so forth. So I think that is the number one. It doesn't cost much, right, to be genuine and kind to one another and to challenge our thinking, our biases, because we are all biased, of course. And that's the number one, I think. And then encouraging others to also educate themselves on different topics often unspoken, right? So we speak about, for example, topics of neurodiversity, autism, HD, domestic violence, and abuse, LGBTQ+ with the focus on transgender, for example. So we want to cover everything, including also mental health, to speak about the unspoken and create a safe environment for people to share what they need because we all go through ups and downs in our lives. It's about being trusted and being empowered if I need a day off or so or if I have something I struggle with, it's okay, because you feel not okay right then to take the time that we need. Because then only if we recover, we can be fully, you know, performance performing again and so on and loyal to the organization and we can retain the people. the people. But looking at them the social side, I think the challenge here is there are so many organizations, so many initiatives. And I personally really, it's my learning journey as well, and I'm still learning, of course, but it's like how we can find the right organizations in terms of right meaning where the money really goes into the the cause, right? And where there is any limited, for example, fee for the administration even though of course we all know everybody needs probably some administrative work right and we also need to pay for it but that's I think the biggest challenge but then what I've done is when I started and looked in my network who do I trust also right and it's again also a little biased of course and then what are they doing right what are maybe bigger organizations doing or smaller? You know, so I spoke a lot to people to say what works well, what doesn't work well, what are your experiences? And then of course, piloted myself, right? So I started with, you know, the generation organization focus up with one pilot in Brazil. And then we loved it, it right so the collaboration went very well so we rolled it out in Brazil, Chile, Colombia this year so yeah and I think then that something rather focused on a few ones but then you know really you can build a trusted environment or collaboration and then you scale it up sometimes you don't need a hundreds of initiatives rather a few and then you can double down on these and focus on them.
Natasha: I think that's great advice. I think it's important to do some research like use the networking community that you've got around you, ask those questions, what's worked for them, what hasn't, as you said, and then just start small. But at least start something, right? Like you said, you can just take some form of action and then exactly review it
Felizitas: Exactly where you're at I mean and I was speaking about every one of us, right? So we also don't need to wait for an organization to do it right? We can do it ourselves in our leisure time maybe and you know start small. But you are giving back. I think and I can also do better in this, right? So I think sometimes we're waiting for something to happen, but we can all take action already.
Natasha: I love that. I think it's good that as individuals, we kind of look at it from the perspective of me as one person, like, what can I do, as well as looking at from a perspective of an organizational organization like what can we do as well. It's great to hear. One thing that I wanted to hear from you is, I mean, many organizations are grappling with the kind of return to work, having some of their workforce remote, then now that COVID is kind of now we're starting to get back into the rhythm of things, back to normal. How would you say returning employees back when you're kind of bringing people back in? How can you still, or when they are working remotely? There is sometimes that feeling of the inclusive piece. How do you bring the organizational culture to life when people aren't actually face to face anymore.
Felizitas: That's a very hot topic at the moment everywhere, right? So great that you bring this up here and it is a needed challenge, right? So where can I start with this? Basically it is it both matters, right? It matters and it is inclusive to allow people to have maybe flexibility in their working life, right? And some also depending on your current situation, for example, some people that either with a family or that are newer diverse prefer either to stay at home, to come to the office, but also even, sometimes I feel like we always focus on people then with children or that are new at the first, but also, you know, an iffy, a sick, good person, right, that has no commitment. Can't prepare, I read to work from home or the office. So everybody, I think the challenge is, is one, everybody has their own needs, right? And preferences, no matter what. And, and we need to allow some flexibility there. And indeed also looking at inclusion often what we find is we can build stronger connections often. I mean there are always exceptions right but it's a difference if I go to the kitchen and you know here get a coffee right and next? And next to me is a colleague that haven't met or in a four-wide and we have a chat. So we can do, you know, we can create much stronger person connections, conveying the culture, you know, I mean, for us, it's we care team first and for others mentality, right? And you can actually really experience it when you are here in the office, how people live the culture, you can feel. I mean, I personally can feel it. And I think that's super important for new genres also to feel it. And of course, then if you have been with, you know, for the organization for a long time, and you know, the culture maybe, the need is not so, so big anymore. And of course, if people are hired, completely remote, right, it's also a different story. And then the agreement has been there before, but we do see the need of balancing it out, um, run us to allow the flexibility for our summer post. Um, because we, we see also the great value in this and we also see the value in being here as a team, right? Um, checking in because also virtually right. If I say, how are you in a test of today? And you say, yeah, great, but." But if actually spend time with you, basically, I can maybe see more, right? And maybe we can build a trust in relationship better in person than on Zoom. And also, I interviewed a few people around this actually, and they said, for example, people from the LGBTQ+ community, right? And they said, for example, people from the LGBTQ+ community, right? Sometimes it's not easy for one to see whether the person is an ally or not, right? And they know, I mean, in working in the working environment, sometimes they need to out themselves every day to multiple people, right? And they're not sure are they safe or not, so they feel sometimes insecure and anxious, which I completely can, I mean, I don't fully understand because I'm not part of the community, but I can have empathy for that around not showing, you know, whether or not knowing whether you're safe or not. But then, you know, of course, it's easier than if I have to for example, this lanyard and I see it right with the colleague or virtually you see nothing right so sometimes there it's very complex and a topic and yeah many things to consider but we truly believe in the power of both.
Natasha: I agree I think there needs to be some sort of like a hybrid with working in the office and at home as well just in flexibility I think is key. So you've shared a few bits on Sum Up, this is what you guys are trying. So in putting that together and putting the strategy together and forming the policy that you have, what was for you the most challenging in doing that? Did you face any sort of pushback from colleagues and how did you overcome that?
Felizitas: So first I mean how have I done it right? So when I started about just three years now, I believe a bit, years ago, I spent a lot of time with our Sum Up parts so I listened a lot to their needs. I did focus groups, I did you know one-on-ones and I spoke you know to everybody including also the leadership team and so on but especially with the networks you know, one-on-ones. And I spoke, you know, to everybody, including also the leadership team and so on, but especially within networks, you know, our Sum Up first. So to understand what's going well, what can we do better, especially our focus on what can we do better was much stronger, of course. And then based on that, I created a strategy around it. And I think there, there's one thing. You will never please everybody, right? And that's I think also a challenge with people. I mean, like me who have this driver, please others, right? And then I only feel okay with myself, you know? But this is, I think something that you need to know right from the beginning. You will never be able to please everybody. And it's also maybe sometimes not healthy, right? Sometimes also if you set boundaries you gain actually also respect and you know to focus also a little bit on the math and Then of course also on one our ties groups right depending depending so on I mean what the ambition is but so I mean, what the ambition is, but you would always have pushback and then, you know, what are sometimes students have one-on-one conversations, go into teams or into groups where maybe the resistance is a little bit stronger and then take time to explain why are we doing it? And also for dinner, I did, you probably all can relate to this, but we need to repeat over and over again. Why does it matter for the organization, for Sum Up for individuals, for everyone of us? And why is that the case?
Because of course, we know that we want to attract and retain the best talents, and we can only do that if we remove our biases, right? And consider the whole pool of talent. The whole cake, let's say not only one piece of it, one dimension. And of course, only if we are diverse, we truly believe that we can then only understand our merchants' needs much better. Can we come up better with products and services, solutions for our merchants and be much more successful, of course? And then if we sometimes look at the all dimensions, one, for me, everybody, of course, we don't still, the D&I groups. But also then if someone doesn't feel impacted, then they will have relative friends who will be impacted. And they might not even know it yet, right? But we know that about 7% to 10% identify as LGBTQ+ we know that about 15% have a different abilities, of course, men, women, non-binary, about one to two percent, identify as transgender, non-binary, and so on. So it will be, we all will be impacted at some point, different age groups, right? With the aging population, financial inclusion is going to get more and more important, especially if we look at the future. And we all, it's very likely that we also get at some point, this disability. So yeah, that's what we try to do, but luckily really at Sum Up, you know, there's great support. It's a very empowering culture. We have about three, three and a half thousand people. And yeah, the founders are still in the company and they really fully trust and empower my team and me to drive the things forward as we believe it's the right thing to do.
Natasha: Fantastic. I think it's great that you've got the support of senior leadership. I think I speak to a number of leaders like yourself that don't necessarily always have that and it can cause some barriers in order to progress in advance their DEI goals. But I completely hear and agree with what you've said in terms of if you're getting pushback, just know that you're not always going to please everybody. So if you get pushback, try and address it as best as you can head-on, have those open conversations and explain the why. And what I think it's just so important because if you don't know why you're doing something then what's the point in doing it right and it's a continuous conversation that needs to be had. We're on a journey here right?
Felizitas: Exactly and sometimes I feel I mean why are people so resistant and there are sometimes I try to catch them there, right? Because they also, they fear. They're fear that their values are not appreciated and seen. Maybe they're fear that their culture will be reduced at some point, right? Or will we become less important? They feel also that they're, you know, how they have been brought up, their values, their beliefs are disrupted because it doesn't align with the other side. So I think there's really important to listen also to them and understand them, right? Show some empathy and then try to take a bit the fear that they have. And there's no risk, right? So sometimes you go into defensive mechanism, we defend or we risk, right? So sometimes we go into defensive mechanism, you know, defend or we freeze, right? Or flee, it's our, you know, natural behavior because we're afraid. And that's, I think we're afraid that they have values that challenge, not, you know, I'm appreciated. So I think sometimes also just being seen and recognized and then having an open conversation around the different topics.
Natasha: So we've talked about the pushback and what we can do to address that. How about where you have senior leaders that are receptive are like agreeable - yep this sounds great - but how do you engage them in order to get them to actually also push these initiatives forward? Because I mean it's a lot to do and it's a lot to do on one person and I do feel that there is a responsibility of us all to take on some actions, take steps for ourselves in order to promote and advance MDI. So how do you engage senior leadership to do to do that?
Felizitas: So one thing is that we do that for example, if we host global diversity inclusion on hands, and over about 1,000 people usually join these from our Sum Up person, our CEOs and founders, right? I mean, are they present and they, you know, have an active part. They speak about also the unspoken rights. So for example, our CEO last time, he spoke also about people's positivity. So if, you know, someone works with us, we trust them, right? And if someone goes through a down and needs support and time off, we need to ensure that they are feeling empowered to do that, to recover and then fully come back. And he spoke about miscarriage, for example, right? So that's also a very sensitive topic. But to say, look, if you experience this, please know that I know maybe officially the days, I don't know, two days or so, depending on the countries, of course, the policy regulations. But if you need more, take more, right? I mean, it's such a tremendous event that happened in your life. So, you know, he just ensured everybody knows that and we spoke about, again, mental health, our co-founder also shares, you know, like, has those talks with our Sum Up person, has the same space to speak to different experiences on mental health topics and so on. So that is the one thing. So they actively engage, they show vulnerability, right? They have empathy with different people from different groups because they share their story, they listen to them. And what we also do is we have different active networks across Sum Up those ERGs, what you often resource groups, right?
Employee resource groups, you call them networks. And then we have senior leaders, senior leaders that are the sponsors. So they regularly meet them, they listen to them. And this also, right, this whole listening part, makes them also understand better and then being able then to take maybe challenge you know us as a company at more about our recruitment initiatives or promotion you know what the status there is and our culture so that's really helpful and beneficial for both parties right one the networks and also senior eddies because we can grow together and in some cases Yeah, we set up some mentoring reverse mentoring right Where it's yeah, it's okay, can be very powerful and to listen to the experiences of different groups and then support them Advice versus our right is it's always to to side learning That's what we do here at some end, of course we can always do more, but that's already good for that first.
Natasha: Yeah, no, sounds like a great start. Having them speak on such emotive and really quite powerful issues that most you find most senior leaders don't really reveal or would normally talk on. But having it come from them shows how invested they are in ensuring that everyone feels as though that they can bring their full selves to work and if they need more time, that you're open to that conversation and to hearing that they need to take some time away and accepting of that. So I think that sounds great. And as always, I love ERGs. So I think they're definitely an important resource for an organization to have. And if there is senior leadership involvement that's even better.
So looking to the future what changes would you like to see or improvements would you like to see in the future for DEI?
Felizitas: That's a good question and also a question that we have in our global network actually. I mean what are the changes? I think one is and we have been talking for about D&I for a long time, right? And if we're really honest, I mean, I think, on the one hand side, a lot has been done. And depending on the country that you're in, of course, right, there are different status and so on. But I do think we can, on the one hand side, be proud of our, you know, the progress that, you know, everybody in the whole, you know, I area, um, has done, I mean, I mentioned some topics we speak about, right? We speak about racism again, um, newer diversity, LGBTQ plus and so on and so forth. So we speak about it, we take action. And at the same time, numbers wise, I feel like little progress has been made. So, and also still looking at the representation of ethnic different groups, LGBTQ+ and so on. So often still in leadership positions, I would love to see more diverse representations. So I feel like on the one hand side, the needle has moved, on the other hand side, it hasn't really moved. And then looking at the happenings around the world, we can actually see almost a movement back. So what I would like to see, I think, is endurance and actually progress. So I think we need to bring everybody on board. I know that can be sometimes very draining and exhausting because people say, "Wow, why should we, you know, again educate and get in wait for people?" But I do think that we do need to really ensure everybody and again, not everybody will be able to join this mission, right? And our journey, but to bring on board as many people as possible and what we can do there, I think one simple thing is speak to about diversity inclusion at home with your families and friends. What I experience often is within the organization, people are like, fight for it, which is great. Everybody's continued to challenge and that's how we make progress as well. But then when I say, what happened at home, no, we can't speak about it. But that's how we actually, probably, reach the critical mass, right, to then bring it forward.
And of course, always conscious that don't protect yourself as well. If you-- like this, mobile, I think you've caught up in English also, mobile. The thing you can put up on the wall so if you... Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever you want. This thing, the turns. Yeah, it's like the baby thing. I hope the listeners will know. But if you blow it and try to move it, and then sometimes changes, sometimes they go back to the old position, sometimes it changes, and then take the new position, but sometimes you blow too hard, and it falls down and breaks. So I think we always need to remember the systems that we work in and what we want, what is important to us, of course. It needs to be a protected setting. And if you can't speak to the families and friends about it, because sometimes you will not be part of it anymore, and you want to be part of it, then please don't do it. But I think you get my point. I think we need to continue our journey. Double down our efforts internally, but also externally help the communities.
Think about the future right in the future pipeline and just doing the right thing and have positive, you know, mindset, positive thinking, peaceful thinking, and whatever we can try to be kind to each other, because I feel that there is so much hate and disrespect out there that I think that is the number one, I think if we can, we're gonna do a bit more towards a peaceful environment and an environment where we understand each other, respect each other no matter which background, know, background, I think we would have achieved a lot.
Natasha: And I think, I mean, for me, it's the, I think it's the diversity, as you said, like there isn't, we're still not where, where I think we, we should be on ensuring that we are like all under representing groups are represented throughout all different types of industries and also at senior levels. But at the same time I do feel that the inclusion piece does kind of somewhat get overshadowed with the conversation of diversity. For me, I think that inclusion should come first. I feel as you've explained, like I think that's one area where that's something that is can easily be done by everyone. It's about you showing love, showing understanding, and as you said just being respectful and I feel that comes with inclusion and if you can show that if you are able to be respectful of others then they'll know that they'll feel comfortable and then they'll want to come to your place of organization or to be around you right and so that's that's one bit for me I I think.
Felizitas: 100% I can completely agree with your attention. That it seems so easy, right? And it seems, or it's currently quite difficult. And I mean, there are of course the whole microaggressions that play out then. I mean, it can be non-verbal, but it can be eye-rolling or including someone in the project because I don't know for some other reasons interrupting people speaking of you know on behalf of someone right and then I think that is that is the one thing sometimes you know people are not aware of their actions right or ego kicks in or even you know like unawareness so it's super important to educate around that. And also I have imposed my microaggressions. And likely I will, which is not great, right? So I need to be aware of those and then change my behaviors because of course it doesn't create an inclusive environment. And also we cannot forget to almost not forget the experiences lived of the communities or different people, right? It can be no matter which color or backgrounds. And it's more likely that monetized groups potentially have experienced more microaggression throughout their lives, right? But it's like, sometimes I think people say, oh yeah, but it was just one joke or just one comment, right? But I myself experienced it actually where the power of microaggressions and then how hard it can hit you all of a sudden, right? And it's was just like, well, another comment. and it was not a big deal because, you know, it was one friends and it was another cause. But then out of a sudden it's like the mound, right? If something happens throughout your life again and again and again and at some point, you know, it's like with this glass, you know, which is getting full and then it spills over. And then I think this also needs to be where right people then say, oh, why it's just the one comment or one person shouldn't over behave now or so. But actually it can be still painful and hurtful because someone has experiences all throughout the lives. And depending on our mental health or state, how much we can take, and especially with the different pillars. So you have the family, pillar, maybe accommodation, health and some of those pillars are shaking. Then of course we can be even more unstable and break even more easily. So that's something I think we can all change. We wear the jokes, we make the comments and our verbal and non-verbal and behaviour.
Natasha: Yeah. Well Felicity, I've so much enjoyed our conversation today. Thanks so much for joining me. Before we do part ways, I would love if you could give us one part in peace of advice for deliridlyers of tomorrow?
Felizitas: Probably it would be something about the resilience and endurance path so hang in there. Believe in yourself and also look for some support, right? If needed. So don't forget yourself and you're well-being and you're meant to health and maybe look for a mentor yourself, right? So to guide you a little bit, that maybe would be my advice.
Natasha: Fantastic, that's great advice for this is us. And for anyone who is listening, if they want to connect with you, how can they do that?
Felizitas: Yes, please reach out. You can connect me or find me on LinkedIn. Please tell us, please send me your next request with us with us. And super happy to connect with more people and more listeners and thank you again so much for having my tache. I really enjoy the conversation and yeah hope we stay connected.
Natasha: Yeah of course definitely. So I will put a link below the episode for your LinkedIn page so if anyone wants to connect with you they can definitely reach out and do that. I apologize for now if you get flooded with messages but I'm sure I'm sure you're on her. Yeah, yeah, no great. I mean you are doing fantastic work. Appreciate you and once Thank you