Can Authentic Leadership Transform Workplace Culture?
🎧 Subscribe on your favourite platform iTunes | Spotify | Google and RSS.
✉️ Sign up to receive our weekly newsletter packed with DEI Insights sent directly to your inbox.
In this week's episode of the 'All Inclusive Podcast,' Natasha speaks with Federico Demarin, a seasoned business executive with 25 years in the People function, excelling in roles at notable companies such as Thomson-Reuters, Swarovski, and 3Sixty Duty Free, culminating as the Chief People Officer Latam for GroupM, the world’s largest media advertising company. With a BA in Business Administration and a Master's in HR, plus certifications in areas including Coaching and Emotional Intelligence, Federico has also imparted knowledge as an MBA professor across Latin America, Europe, and China. His career is marked by a commitment to leveraging technology and innovation within HR, developing mission-centric cultures, and driving operational excellence across diverse industries. Federico's global mindset and direct experience across various markets underline his strategic approach to People Strategy, Talent Acquisition, and Organizational Design, reaffirming his dedication to enhancing organizational value through innovative people management practices.
Episode Highlights:
Federico's Entry into HR and Early Career (02:19)
Discovering a People-focused Leadership Style (03:55)
Navigating Corporate Decisions and Advocating for People (12:53)
Keys to Transforming Workplace Culture Authentically (16:08)
Staying True to Self Amidst Organizational Changes (20:18)
Integrating DEI into Cultivating Inclusive Cultures (23:09)
Federico's Advice for DEI and HR Leaders (31:39)
Connect with Federico Demarin on LinkedIn to follow his work.
Transcript
Natasha: Hi, Federico.
Federico: Hey, how are you?
Natasha: I'm good, I'm good. How are you?
Federico: Very good. No, sunshine in Florida.
Natasha: Oh, my gosh, I'm so jealous. It is not shining here in the UK at all. It's actually raining and cold. So, yeah, I wish I was where you were.
Natasha: Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm really interested in what you have to say and all of the valuable lessons that you've got to teach us today. Let's begin. I'm really curious with the early stages of your career. How did you get started? Like, what got you into HR?
Federico: It's funny. Honestly, at the beginning, there was one thing that I had clear in my mind, which is I loved traveling. And I liked sharing time with people and get to know people. As basic as that, I was in my 20s. So, obviously, I didn't know much. I was studying business administration because I didn't have a clear function in my head. I was working in marketing.
And this came up and I said, "This position would allow you to travel. It's an international company. You will get to work with people from different countries." Which to me was like, "Yay, awesome."
So, it was kind of by chance, honestly. I wasn't looking into HR as a function, but as soon as I was there, I realized this is what can give me the things that I like.
And looking backwards, I think, two other things also helped. The fact that I didn't like routine too much, so I wouldn't jump into one specialized area of HR. I liked the fact that I could look into all of them.
And helping people, I felt the energy when you help someone and you get this thank you. And I realize now that that's one of the things that pushed me through my career. Were there any key experiences that really set you on the path? So, when you had fallen into this world you were traveling, can you share with us any key experiences for you that cemented that feeling, like, "Right, yes, I know I'm definitely in the right place."
Yes, obviously, the moment I started to work with other countries and starting to learn and to ask questions and to share information, at the end of the day, and I was working during the day and starting during the night. So, it was a really heavy day. You end up at 11, 11, 30 p.m. every day. So, it's very easy to be tired and just to give up. But when I was leaving my job, I was with energy. I was passionate. And sometimes you have to work 9 hours, 10 hours and go straight to college. And I never felt it as a burden. To me, that was one thing. And honestly, as an experience, one key moment in my life, I say it's when I want to point in my career, my boss was made redundant due to reorganization. And my new boss came from a different part of the world and said, "Look, I don't have an idea what your boss was doing. So, you have two options here. You either help me out, but I'm not going to be able to give you her job or I need to find another solution." So, that was a moment.
And I said, "Well, let's surf it." You know, I didn't know what she was doing either. So, I said, "But, you know, what could happen?" And that kind of set me up in a past that brought me where I am today. So, I think that was a fundamental moment. You know, one of those forks where you can go one way or the other.
Natasha: Oh, wow. That's amazing. It must have been scary as well though, at the same time. It's like, I think when you get into, when you find that moment in your life where you're excited and scared at the exact same time, I feel like that's where you need to dive full into it. That experience that you had and that decision that you took, how then did you, or do you see that that has applied in the way in which you actually do your work, if that makes sense?
Federico: Yes. Definitely, you mentioned that, you know, coming out of your comfort zone, you always come across these opportunities.
It's so easy to be cynical about it. You say, "So, the company wants me to do more work for the same pay. This is not fair." I understand that. Those thoughts came to my mind. But on the other side, I said, "Look, you know, I'm a true believer that fortune is, you know, when opportunity meets preparation.
And when opportunity knocks at the door, you always have the decision to take it or not." And that to me has been a shaping moment because I've had that same approach, because it worked. And it doesn't mean I was happy about it. I had to work a lot. And as I said, I was studying at the moment, so my days were really crazy.
But I took it in and I said, "Look, this is the opportunity that could bring me other things." And it did. It gave me the opportunity to have international assignments in Europe, in Brazil, in other countries. It's exactly what my dream was about.
And I wouldn't have had those opportunities if I would say, "No, you know, thank you. I'd like to continue doing what I'm doing for my pay." When we spoke previously that you could have defined yourself as people, you're a people-focused leader. And I think it's quite profound when somebody discovers their purpose and knows and is clear, like, "This is what I'm meant to do. This is what I'm here to do, is help others and help people." And that's how I want to kind of drive my career forward.
Natasha: Could you share with us what your defining moment of that was to know that, "Right, this is definitely what I want to do. This is how I want to work in this field."
Federico: Yeah, I think it was when I had my children. When I became a father, I realized that there had to be more in life than just earning a paycheck and chasing a career. Fortunately, I had already achieved certain milestones that left my ambitious heart at peace. But at the same time, I said, "Look, I want to be able to tell my kids, when I describe what I do, to say something that is inspiring." And not just, "Oh, yeah, I run a payroll, I hire people, and it seems like, you know, heartless." That's one thing. On the other side, another moment, and it came with several self-assessments that I did, that I realized that it was not about being happy. You know, it's not the feeling of happiness, because sometimes you're not. You're angry, you're upset, you're frustrated, you're stressed, but you're at the same time thriving.
And finding those things that make you thrive, even though they don't make you happy in the moment, they make you feel purposeful. Because when you work with people and you hear their problems, you hear their issues, their dreams, you have to come across so many obstacles, so many conflicts of interest, so many people that are really not interested, and you have to advocate for those that really are. So it's not a happy road. You have to go through a lot. And understanding that even though you may be frustrated or upset, you're still doing something that fulfills your purpose.
And that moment came up in one of those self-assessments. So I think it's very, I would always recommend it for people that are going through their careers. Not being so sure why they do what they do is to have this kind of dive in their self and understand why you do what you do and try to understand what is it that you may not like in terms of how you feel, but actually makes you thrive, fills you with energy, because that might be the secret of why you do what you do.
Natasha: Oh, I love that. So with the self-assessment, how did you find it? Was it something that you did internally for yourself, personally, or in an environment with others? Because I find that there's different ways in which we can self-assess, we can self-assess amongst others, or we can do it on our own solo. So I'm interested, what technique or what avenue did you go down?
Federico: I wanted to bring more emotional intelligence into the company I was working for. So I did some coaching certifications in emotional intelligence. When you go through those workshops, you have to dive in yourself a lot, because it would be very difficult to help people learn and develop their emotional intelligence where you don't do it with yourself first.
So finding your own shortcomings, your own strengths, your own path, your past, it's very deep and interesting. And that's how I started into that self-awareness process. So it was emotional intelligence. And obviously, as soon as you start bringing into your day-to-day job, then the realization comes. And I can share with you an experience that was to me critical after that.
Natasha: I'd love to hear it.
Federico: I was in one of my trips to one of the markets, I was sitting with a CFO, and we were discussing a potential development program for the finance team.
And this was something that her boss, which was also my boss, wanted to do in the finance department, but she wasn't really on board. She didn't believe in that as an action. She wanted to do something else. And I got myself caught into this argument.
And at one point, I started to, you know, "Okay, pay attention to your temperature. What are you doing with your hands? How is your body?" And I realized, like, "Why are you so tight? Why are you so upset? This is not even something you are really trying to get. So why did you invest so much of yourself into this conversation?" And as soon as I realized, like, "Oh my God, yeah, my hands are pressuring the table."
And I wasn't really noticing until that moment. And I said, "Wow, I need to decompress right now." I said, "Look, sorry. You know, I think I was trying to convince you of something, and the idea was to share this with you. I understand you may have a different approach to this, and it's fine. Let's just regroup. Let's talk to your boss and see what alternatives we can manage."
It just went away. So to me, it was like, "Wow, wow, that was amazing. How could I avoid going into that path that I already knew?" Because, you know, once you go through that and you realize after the aftermath is, I'm not happy of how that ended. Even if you managed to force whatever you wanted to do, the relationship suffers. And fortunately, I was able to avoid that because of that self-awareness.
Natasha: I think it's a powerful story actually, where you are able to self-reflect on that situation. And in that moment, in real time, because not many of us do, a lot of us would, like you explained, would end the conversation. And then after the fact, think, "Oh, actually, like maybe I probably didn't handle that that great." Or I just completely bulldozed her perspective, her opinion, and just completely just got her to come onto my side without any consideration to what she really wanted or that individual wanted.
How did you go about ensuring that your purpose, the way in which you want to lead, and the way in which you want to work, was harmonious with what the organization's mission is? Because we do see that it happens, like leaders or as individuals, we work with companies for a number of years or some time, and you then start to grow as an individual. You recognize what your purpose is, you find it. How do you make sure that you continue to stick by those values that you've now come by?
Federico: I think first and foremost, when you work in a corporate world, you need to understand that it's not a straight line. It's impossible that every decision, every step goes forward towards the company's mission and vision or your own, your own purpose. So you don't get frustrated when something goes sideways, right? So it is not a straight line. It's a journey, it's a way of living and working. It's not a line that you have to cross, and suddenly after that, everything is smooth, and all decisions are aligned, that's impossible. And this is very important because otherwise you can easily get frustrated and just drop it, as a company or as an individual.
So in my case, I have to deal with a lot of decisions constantly, and you need to have this compass very close every time you make decisions where people are involved, whether their future, their interest.
Some decisions are very technical. If you go for system A versus system B, you can be very rational. You don't need your compass there. But when decisions affect the people's future well-being, their economies, this is where you need to know how to distinguish what's right and what's wrong. And your job is to advocate for what you believe is right in terms of the company's purpose and the individual's purpose. If you do that, your own will follow, right? And there's going to be setbacks. Sometimes, you know, that phrase that you need to step one step back, you know, to take two forward, it's true. And you cannot let that defeat you, you know, because at the end, you will not be able to help every single person in a company that's being realistic. You go through companies, go through reorganization, restructuring, and you cannot help everybody. But what you do to make it better, even those bad moments, matters and counts. And those are the things that push you through your purpose. So in my case, it's having it very close to my mind and to my heart in every decision that I made. When I see individuals, I said, I'm the advocate. I should not expect other executives to do this. This is my job. And sometimes it will put me against all those individuals.
And I would explain it openly. I just want you to know that I'm not just being antagonistic. This is the role I have to play in this organization because I am the people's advocate. And that's the voice that needs to be heard.
Natasha: I love that. That's amazing. So shifting gears a little bit, transforming a workplace culture, it's no small thing. It's a big thing. So could you, in your experience, what have you learned? Like, what are the essential steps that you believe are critical to a successful culture transformation within an organization?
Federico: I will go from the simple to the complex. I think the simple two things that I believe are fundamental is authenticity.
You cannot sell something that is not real. You cannot just put a poster in the wall and say, this is our culture and pretend that that's the truth and everybody will follow. You really need to understand what is it. So look into the company, see how people behave, what is actually non-negotiable for those individuals, what's important, what is not, and trying to define your culture properly. Now, if that definition is not something you like, which could be, you want to change it, then you need to have a purpose for why. Why is it important to change this? Because there are already people in that organization working probably for many years. So that means it works for them one way or another.
So you need to explain to them what's in it for you, what's in it for us as a company, what is the future, and this is the reason why we want to change it. And secondly, it's transparent communication. You need to be honest with your people. What is it that you're going to do? When? How? So you build trust as you go.
I think most companies fail at defining a culture they want to portray to their clients, to the industry, to whoever is out there, to their employees. And this is what we want to be, but it's not what they are. And then they start driving things and actions that would reflect that culture. But people don't buy it because they see that it's a different story of what they see every day. And that's a critical mistake. You will never, I don't think you will ever be successful of having a real culture that drives the business unless you're authentic. No, definitely. I completely agree. So how have you managed to stay true to yourself? What advice can you give for people that are trying to stay true to themselves and still stay authentic? I think the reason why you may not do this, not be true to yourself, is because you're afraid.
You're afraid of being exposed. You're afraid of being cancelled. You're afraid of, you know, many things. And this speaks a great length about inclusion because it's not enough to bring a person that thinks in one way or another.
That will give them a chair, but then they need to be heard. They need to be understood. They need to be able to speak their minds and be themselves. If they don't feel safe, they will never bring that value, that inclusion, that diversity will bring. And diversity in all its sense, even in our brains.
So I think as a leader, if I am the CEO of a company and I want people to be able to feel true to themselves, to their own purpose and to bring it to the table, I need to create this trust. I need to build this executive team where they feel they can trust me as a leader and each other.
So in having enough moments of truth, meetings where we can get together and just put the fish on the table, like, how do you feel about this? You know, tell me you're on a self and you can say, look, myself, I think this, but as I'm looking into my role, this is what I think we should do, because this also happens. You know, I've heard people from technical functions say, look, my heart says this, but I understand we have to do this other thing. And that level of honesty and transparency at executive level will help bring this culture of transparency and trust and the rest of the organization, because they will try to do it. It feels so good that you will try to do it with your own teams. And then it cascades down to the whole organization.
Natasha: Yeah, yeah, no, it definitely starts from the top, doesn't it? I mean, everyone, you want to follow the people that you look up to as it's human nature. Like, we tend to look up to others and follow suit. And so if you have a CEO head of the company that is displaying transparency is vulnerability, then you will naturally feel like, oh, okay, like we can that's something that's okay here. And they will listen to our opinions. They want to hear from us and then they will act accordingly.
You've mentioned DEI and that's close to my heart, obviously with this podcast. It is definitely a vital component, I believe, in today's working world. How have you woven DEI principles into your efforts for cultivating inclusive cultures?
Federico: You need to have this overarching philosophy. It's important to understand what it means for the company, because companies may have different cultures, different locations, and diversity, equity and inclusion may mean very different things in different parts of the world. So you need to understand that, have an open mind and say, okay, I need to have something that is broad enough for everybody to connect. And again, it's not a line. It's a way of operating. It's a way of living as a company. It's an endless game if you want. After that, there's so many things to do, so many. Big mountains, small rocks.
Unfortunately, I see many companies focusing on the surface because this is the easiest step. From a marketing standpoint, it's very easy to showcase those because somehow what you're telling the world is, I've done everything else. The difficult ones, they're covered. You're not actually saying it by focusing on the surface. What you're saying is, I'm already at this point, so I can do all these superficial things and it would matter. But when you're in the trenches, when you're in the markets, when you see how the company really works, this is where you can make a difference. And to me, that has been my focus. I've been in meetings with hiring managers in different companies and you hear what they say in the way they recruit, in the way they take notes. And this is, oh my God, this is the real thing. This is not about, you know, the fluffy stuff that sometimes is discussed at the top. This is about asking people if they have a family, asking people very inappropriate things. But again, there's differences in the world. Some countries have different cultures and different laws. And what I found out is that you can make huge differences if you go make sure that the basics are really working. Pay equity, promotions and opportunities. Who's being called a high potential and why?
Use the data that will tell you if you're doing a good job or not. And those things take time, take effort, they invest in terms of the people that can do that. It's so much easier to do the superficial thing. You know, we're going to do an event and participate in an race or put everybody puts a collar in the arm. That supports causes and is a good thing. But you need to make sure you're really managing all those other things that make a difference for individuals. And as I said, my purpose is to help people. And if I can change the life of one person that haven't had the opportunity or hasn't been heard, to me that makes the world. It's not so much about casting information as much as changing lives.
Natasha: That's lovely Federico. And what advice would you give to those DEI leaders, those HR leaders out there that are trying to do this? And they're trying to integrate DEI more seamlessly into their organizations framework. What's one piece of advice that you'd give them?
Federico: For sure. What I would recommend is to go through your employee life cycle, understand everything that you're doing as a function. Try to, it's not just yourself, gather people that can give you different perspectives.
And try to understand what kind of biases, what kind of situations are happening on those stages. Go to the very beginning and how do you post a job and where do you post it? And if it reaches everybody that you're trying to reach, then you go through all the steps of how do you select, how do you recruit? And in terms of inclusion, when you know you're bringing people that adds diversity that should enrich the way you make decisions, make sure those people thrive. Because sometimes you just tick the box, "Oh, we hired this person that represents this group." Great, welcome to the company. And then you forget and in 11 months, 12 months, that person left. And it's just another statistic. It's turnover, right? It gets mixed with everyone else. But why? And I've come, I've took, I remember I took the effort of reaching this individual very far away from where I was and say, "What happened?"
And what she shared was like, she didn't feel part of the organization because she didn't have people to go to lunch. When she explained something, she felt like they were looking at her like, "Okay. I know what you're trying to say." You know, instead of welcoming that person and using what that person can actually bring in terms of diversity of perspective, they were just trying to institutionalize her. And as it didn't work, she said, "I don't belong." And then all the diversity goes away. But you'd still have the check, right? I hired these kind of people.
It's not the purpose of diversity. If you don't manage how to include those people into your day-to-day, they feel accepted, welcomed, they heard, they feel they trust the people that are around them. It's just, you know, superficial.
Natasha: Yeah, definitely. And I think to add to that as well, one of the benefits of hiring someone that has a diverse perspective or background is that they bring new ideas that you may well not have even thought of. And it's like, as soon as they enter the door, that's the reason why you'd hire them, right? But then as soon as they enter the door, it's like, have you given them the opportunity to actually vocalize those ideas? Or when they do, how are they received? Like, are they shut down straight away? Or is there someone on the team or at that table? Oh, that's a great idea, actually. You've never thought of that. What do you think? You know, like, I think it happens time and time again. And I think it goes to your point is that as soon as you hire them, it's like, how comes they left so quickly? Because they didn't feel like they belong. They didn't feel like they were actually contributing to the organization's goals, missions. They didn't feel like they were part of the team.
Federico: Yeah, they're cultures that are so strong and they are embedded into the whole employee life cycle. And it's very common to talk about cultural fit, right? You want people to fit your culture in the organization because that's the way they will thrive.
But that can easily be a blocker for inclusion, right? So if you're looking for diversity is because you're supposed to be looking for different ways of thinking. And that is going to have some conflict with your culture. Otherwise, it's not different at all.
Natasha: Yeah, exactly.
Federico: And that's a huge part also of diversity, equity and inclusion. You may belong to a specific group. You could call it race, religions, gender. But that doesn't mean you are the same as everyone else in that group, right? So you need to you need to let that person be authentic and listen. And sometimes they bring elements that are disruptive to your current culture.
So how do you make sure you get a balance between I still like my culture, but it's open enough to receive this individuals and not, you know, trying to institutionalize them and turn them into just another person in the culture.
Natasha: Yeah, definitely. Well, Federico, thank you so much for joining me today. Like I I've really learned a lot and I hope our listeners have as well. Your experience, your insights have definitely been invaluable. And just before you do leave us, I know you've given so much advice. You've given us so many nuggets, but can you just share one piece of parting advice for our listeners?
Federico: Sure, I think and I usually say this to the people that I teach. I taught in MBA programs and kids that are I call them kids. They're not kids anymore, but they're young professionals and they are trying to figure out, okay, so how do I what do I do? You know, how do I drive my career? How do I pursue my interests? And and I know it's hard. It's super hard to find out what makes you tick.
It's a journey, but you need to start right away. That would be my key advice. Wherever you are right now in your job is not too late. Just get get in touch with people that can help you people you trust and start talking about your life, your life, your your obstacles, the difficult things and the great things that define who you are and try to find those red threats that made you who you are. The decisions that you made because that is the secret of, you know, pursuing a purpose.
If you understand that line, it's so much easier to talk to your emotions when we were talking about emotional intelligence. It's so much easier to calm your anxiety, your frustration, your stress, because you understand why you're doing it.
When you focus on transactions, it's so easy to get frustrated and there's no better example than kids for that. It's so easy to get frustrated because you have to breakfast and and, you know, taking them to school and everything. It's crazy. It's so easy to get trapped into those transactions until you you figure out, oh, wait a minute. Why I said, am I doing this? And then you find yourself again.
Natasha: Oh, that's fantastic. Well, thanks again, Federico. I thoroughly enjoyed our conversation. I knew I would. For our listeners, how if they want to kind of reach out, find out a little bit more about you, stay up to date with the work that you're doing. How can they connect with you?
Federico: The easiest way through LinkedIn. So connect, contact with me. I'll try to stay very close to my LinkedIn profile and all the communications that I receive.
Natasha: Great. Fantastic. Well, I will put a link below to your LinkedIn profile. So those listening are able to reach out and connect with you if they want to hear about more work that you're doing and stay in the loop. Once again, Federico, thank you so much for joining me today. And I wish you all the best in the future.
Federico: Thank you very much. It's been my pleasure.
-
s